Transcription
Interviewer: Good morning, thank you very much for receiving us today which is Saturday, December 28th and it's about 11:30 in the morning.
Interviewer: Thank you very much because we have here my beloved aunt who has completed 100 years and will tell us whatever she remembers from her childhood and youth.
Interviewer: Well, next to me I have my cousin, Zak Frances and further over is my sister Emmy Filosofou.
Interviewer: Auntie, tell me a little your name, your mother's name and your father's name.
Toula Frances: My name is Toula Frances and my mother is Kone and my father.
Interviewer: What was mother's name?
Toula Frances: Louiza.
Interviewer: Louiza and father's?
Toula Frances: Leon.
Interviewer: That's right, that. I remember when you told me when I was little.
Toula Frances: They were a very beloved couple.
Interviewer: Were you born in Volos?
Toula Frances: I was born in Volos.
Interviewer: What date?
Toula Frances: 1924.
Interviewer: Great, so you have a lot to tell us about what was happening before the war and a little after.
Interviewer: Let's say, when you were little, how were celebrations at home, what language did mother and father speak?
Toula Frances: Greek.
Interviewer: Greek, great.
Interviewer: The holidays, how did we celebrate them?
Toula Frances: Properly.
Interviewer: I'm sure, but do you want to describe them to us a little before the war?
Toula Frances: She did everything, every holiday there was, she made everything properly.
Interviewer: Did we have any special custom, let's say Passover, what did you do specially before the war?
Toula Frances: Then, I wish it was like that now too.
Interviewer: Well tell us then so we can hear.
Toula Frances: Then we had good relatives.
Toula Frances: We had Avdela, the brother from my grandmother and we went for Passover and we all made a table together from here to there.
Interviewer: What foods did you eat?
Toula Frances: Artichokes, potatoes, made dishes.
Interviewer: But did your mother make mazzikas, mazzikas, pastelli and such things?
Toula Frances: Of course.
Toula Frances: All those things.
Interviewer: And what else.
Interviewer: Do you remember something characteristic that your mother used to do but now it's been abolished that we don't do it anymore?
Interviewer: Do you remember something?
Interviewer: As a child that we don't do anymore now.
Interviewer: Let's say I remember the tramouzes we made in Larissa.
Interviewer: What do you remember?
Toula Frances: We did everything.
Toula Frances: And whatever we could do here.
Interviewer: You always did.
Interviewer: I remember that you did.
Interviewer: Great then.
Interviewer: Tell us how life was before the war.
Toula Frances: Very good.
Interviewer: Did you go to school?
Toula Frances: I don't know. It was very good. The relatives gathered together.
Toula Frances: And Rosh Hashanah, Passover.
Toula Frances: We had good relatives. They've died now.
Interviewer: Auntie, the bat mitzvahs and bar mitzvahs you went to.
Interviewer: Did you go to bar mitzvahs before the war, children always did them.
Interviewer: Did the ceremony change at all afterwards?
Toula Frances: Of course it changed.
Interviewer: In what way?
Toula Frances: Now we don't see them doing it.
Interviewer: Come on, they do. They're just more worldly now.
Interviewer: They also have parties afterwards.
Toula Frances: No they have parties. They do more ostentatious things.
Interviewer: Were they simpler then or not?
Toula Frances: No. On the contrary, they were proper.
Interviewer: Meaning? That is?
Interviewer: Tell us how the proper way was?
Toula Frances: Listen. How it was.
Toula Frances: Whatever was done that was the custom.
Toula Frances: We did it extra.
Toula Frances: We did it right.
Interviewer: Great.
Toula Frances: And people were happy too.
Interviewer: Auntie, how many Jews were there before the war here, do you remember?
Interviewer: There were many families.
Toula Frances: Yes of course.
Interviewer: How were you saved, auntie?
Toula Frances: We.
Interviewer: Yes.
Toula Frances: My father came at noon from the shop.
Interviewer: What kind of shop did he have?
Toula Frances: Commercial down on Ermou.
Interviewer: And what did he tell mother?
Toula Frances: Get up, prepare packages and let's get up to leave.
Toula Frances: Because the Germans are waiting for us to take us.
Interviewer: Who had warned him?
Interviewer: Who had told him and he knew?
Toula Frances: He came. They had a person who.
Interviewer: Someone known?
Toula Frances: Yes.
Toula Frances: Uncle Moses was.
Interviewer: In Athens.
Interviewer: Tell us.
Toula Frances: Uncle Moses was in the resistance.
Toula Frances: Yes. And he brought a signal about this thing.
Toula Frances: That's why they prepared to leave.
Toula Frances: At the same time Sefel also gave the same.
Toula Frances: Sefel was the German consul here in Volos.
Toula Frances: Who was pro-Jewish.
Toula Frances: Himself.
Toula Frances: And he gave the.
Toula Frances: The signal to the municipality and to the police.
Toula Frances: And it became organized afterwards.
Toula Frances: The organized escape.
Toula Frances: Volos didn't have many cities like that.
Toula Frances: It had I would say 30%.
Toula Frances: It had now.
Interviewer: Of course.
Interviewer: He said why didn't they follow the instruction.
Toula Frances: Not everyone could leave.
Toula Frances: Those who stayed were caught.
Interviewer: But let's say now.
Toula Frances: They took the chief rabbi to Keramidi.
Toula Frances: Then and.
Toula Frances: We went.
Toula Frances: What good people they were.
Toula Frances: Who helped us.
Interviewer: Where in Keramidi did you go? Where did you go?
Toula Frances: No.
Toula Frances: First we went.
Toula Frances: Here, how should I say, I forgot.
Toula Frances: Anyway.
Toula Frances: We reached Sklithro.
Toula Frances: We went to the canals first and slept.
Toula Frances: There that night and then on foot.
Interviewer: Sklithro is very far.
Toula Frances: But the people were so good.
Interviewer: They helped you.
Toula Frances: They helped us.
Toula Frances: As if we had moved them.
Interviewer: How long did you hide?
Toula Frances: How long?
Toula Frances: Until liberation happened.
Interviewer: How long was it, a year?
Toula Frances: Two years.
Interviewer: And then you came down.
Toula Frances: We came down and went to our house.
Interviewer: Did you find it?
Toula Frances: We found it. There was a small family.
Toula Frances: And they left the next morning.
Toula Frances: We had our things inside.
Toula Frances: Everything. Whatever we took then, we took.
Toula Frances: And we had our things.
Toula Frances: We slept.
Toula Frances: We got up.
Toula Frances: I remember my mother taking beans to the oven.
Toula Frances: Outside to the oven.
Toula Frances: Then we took food outside.
Toula Frances: Very nice.
Toula Frances: They helped us.
Toula Frances: What can I tell you.
Toula Frances: Very much.
Interviewer: And after it ended and you came down to the house, tell us, did you meet your husband, Morris Frances?
Toula Frances: No.
Interviewer: No. What happened. Tell us.
Interviewer: Tell us.
Toula Frances: I have years.
Toula Frances: One evening he came from Athens, Zakis my cousin.
Interviewer: Yes, Zakis.
Toula Frances: And...
Toula Frances: He had his little daughter to give her a bath in Volos. It was summer.
Toula Frances: And...
Toula Frances: And then...
Toula Frances: They left. They went to Larissa.
Toula Frances: He came with father.
Toula Frances: With the son-in-law.
Toula Frances: Zakar came with father.
Interviewer: Yes.
Interviewer: And they had nowhere to stay, you had told me.
Toula Frances: Morris came in the evening, my husband.
Toula Frances: I didn't know him of course, he was a child.
Toula Frances: And together with my cousin, Zakis.
Toula Frances: And he says to my mother, auntie.
Toula Frances: It was summer, August.
Toula Frances: Can we stay here?
Toula Frances: I also have my wife's cousin.
Toula Frances: He was a cousin.
Toula Frances: And my mother says gladly.
Toula Frances: We slept, we got up in the morning.
Toula Frances: Auntie, I'll take Toula to Larissa too.
Toula Frances: Me.
Toula Frances: Because the little girl Rita had gotten used to me.
Toula Frances: When she was little then.
Interviewer: Auntie, I wanted to ask you.
Interviewer: When you were a young girl, still a little girl, did you go to school?
Interviewer: Did you go to public school or Jewish school?
Toula Frances: No, it didn't exist then.
Interviewer: But you went to public school.
Toula Frances: Yes.
Interviewer: Did your classmates, your female classmates treat you well?
Toula Frances: Very well.
Interviewer: Were you satisfied? There wasn't anything in Volos then that was against the Jews.
Interviewer: And you specifically.
Toula Frances: Very nice.
Interviewer: Synagogue, how often did you go, father and mother, you?
Toula Frances: We went every Saturday.
Toula Frances: And Friday evening.
Interviewer: There was no Jewish school. Then there were no Jewish schools like they have now.
Interviewer: There was only yeshiva for those who became Rabbis.
Interviewer: But in Volos there was nothing.
Toula Frances: Of course, there was.
Interviewer: Of course, yeshiva.
Toula Frances: From Rabbi Pesach was the Rabbi and head of yeshiva.
Toula Frances: He had quite a few students.
Interviewer: Of course, he had.
Interviewer: From where?
Toula Frances: From here, from Volos.
Interviewer: Volos. Yes.
Interviewer: Do you know about how many?
Toula Frances: According to the photograph I saw, there must have been 25.
Interviewer: There were quite a few.
Toula Frances: Yes, of course.
Interviewer: Do you perhaps know how this was funded?
Toula Frances: Ah, I don't know.
Toula Frances: I know those were difficult times then.
Toula Frances: And people looked to make a profession and earn their bread.
Toula Frances: And...
Toula Frances: They didn't have this luxury for many things.
Toula Frances: And those who went, went, finished, but then came, of course, the Holocaust and the yeshiva was dissolved.
Toula Frances: But they didn't have the Jewish schools they have today.
Toula Frances: They only had yeshiva and bet midrash.
Toula Frances: My father studied at bet midrash in Larissa.
Toula Frances: That's why he knew...
Interviewer: Call out, Zak.
Interviewer: Keep it after the good.
Zak Frances: My uncle, Morris Frances and his father, Zak and his wife, served as religious functionary in Volos for many many years.
Interviewer: 65 years.
Interviewer: Tell us now you too, Zak, since you're here and lived your childhood years in Volos, how do you remember your parents, how often...
Zak Frances: They didn't speak Ladino between themselves, but father knew.
Interviewer: Father knew.
Zak Frances: He knew how to read Hebrew.
Interviewer: He knew how to read Hebrew.
Zak Frances: Of course.
Interviewer: But not Ladino though.
Zak Frances: No.
Interviewer: No. In Volos that's how things were. So your father spoke Ladino. Tell us how he did it.
Zak Frances: He tried to teach me Ladino, I was looking for how to go play.
Interviewer: Like all of us.
Zak Frances: Yes. And we remained without.
Interviewer: In some words we all understand. The classic ones that most of us know.
Interviewer: As a small child how did you experience Judaism in Volos? Tell us, do you remember something special from the holiday tables?
Interviewer: Purim, auntie, when you had Purim did you distribute platykos?
Toula Frances: Yes of course.
Interviewer: And what did you get, money?
Toula Frances: And sesame and boureki with almonds and kaltsounakia with almonds.
Interviewer: What didn't you eat at home in terms of food?
Interviewer: What didn't you eat. What didn't you eat. Did you eat pork?
Toula Frances: Whatever wasn't Kosher we didn't eat.
Interviewer: That's right.
Interviewer: Simply.
Interviewer: In all the houses. And even today you take them.
Toula Frances: My mother was very religious, my mother.
Toula Frances: So we observed everything extra.
Interviewer: How did she wash the meat with coarse salt?
Interviewer: That is, she made the meat kosher herself.
Interviewer: Because then didn't someone slaughter for you?
Toula Frances: Yes of course the Chacham slaughtered.
Interviewer: He slaughtered.
Toula Frances: There was always Kosher here.
Interviewer: Which Chacham slaughtered?
Toula Frances: Until Vital.
Interviewer: He slaughtered.
Toula Frances: Of course he slaughtered and also did circumcision.
Interviewer: Both.
Interviewer: Bravo.
Toula Frances: Then each one.
Interviewer: Okay then things changed.
Interviewer: Whoever wanted to keep kept. Whoever didn't want to didn't keep.
Interviewer: That was it.
Interviewer: And they went to see if they keep or don't keep.
Interviewer: Okay no no more.
Toula Frances: My mother was so religious and my father and they did everything.
Toula Frances: What reading he had to do in the evening.
Toula Frances: What was a little holiday with all those things they did.
Interviewer: From the community what do you remember when you were a small child?
Interviewer: Did you have celebrations?
Zak Frances: Yes of course.
Interviewer: Yes of course.
Interviewer: Tell us a little so we can hear what exactly happened.
Zak Frances: Then it was a big community when I was little.
Zak Frances: I remember they gave me a ball at Purim.
Zak Frances: I have a photograph.
Zak Frances: And I was so interested to know how many Jews there were then.
Zak Frances: Around 700 people it had after the Holocaust.
Zak Frances: And well of course many left.
Zak Frances: Then universities started.
Zak Frances: Children went to university.
Zak Frances: They didn't want to follow commerce like me.
Zak Frances: Those years I remember Ermou had more Jewish shops than non-Jewish ones.
Zak Frances: And then the next generation disappeared.
Zak Frances: Today there are two shops I think left.
Interviewer: Which ones?
Zak Frances: Sabbetai's.
Zak Frances: And Avdela's and Mais's.
Interviewer: And Mais's, right.
Zak Frances: Then though 80% of Ermou was Jewish shops.
Interviewer: Do you remember what shop your grandfather had in Volos?
Zak Frances: Yes of course.
Zak Frances: He had many items, wholesale and retail.
Interviewer: When he returned from the war did he find the shop and continue it or did he start it again from the beginning?
Zak Frances: He continued it and started it.
Zak Frances: He took the goods to Koutsina when they left.
Zak Frances: Because he was a very good friend of his.
Zak Frances: Koutsina House.
Zak Frances: It was the biggest shop in Volos.
Zak Frances: And they put everything, they went by themselves.
Zak Frances: They put all the merchandise upstairs.
Zak Frances: Because it was three-story.
Zak Frances: And so the merchandise was saved.
Zak Frances: When they returned he opened the shop again and then my uncles continued it, the children.
Interviewer: Where did grandfather go during the war, where did he go and hide?
Zak Frances: They all went to Sklithro.
Toula Frances: We went to Sklithro. Very good people.
Zak Frances: They also had a car then.
Zak Frances: But my grandfather didn't drive.
Zak Frances: He had a driver.
Zak Frances: Who took them as far as he could take them and then took the car and...
Interviewer: Whose car was it?
Zak Frances: My grandfather's.
Interviewer: Ah, so the other guy took it and left afterwards.
Zak Frances: Yes. And they never saw it again.
Interviewer: Father and mother, auntie, where were they from originally?
Toula Frances: From Volos.
Toula Frances: No. Nona, yes, from here, from Volos.
Toula Frances: He was from Preveza.
Toula Frances: Grandfather.
Interviewer: Your father was from Preveza. Where was he born?
Toula Frances: Not my father.
Interviewer: Your grandfather.
Toula Frances: My grandfather.
Toula Frances: And they came to Volos to stay.
Toula Frances: Then my mother got married.
Toula Frances: Who was from Volos.
Toula Frances: Yes.
Interviewer: So Zak's grandfather was from here. Born here.
Toula Frances: The others, my grandfather and grandmother were from Larissa.
Toula Frances: Of my husband.
Toula Frances: The parents were from Larissa.
Toula Frances: They were, they spoke Ladino.
Toula Frances: And my grandmother didn't speak Greek very well.
Later in the interview, Zak Fransais describes his family's flight from Larissa to Kaisariani with false identities when the Italians surrendered the city to the Germans. He analyzes the reasons why the Germans focused on Greece, explaining that this was where the intellectual leadership of Sephardic Jewry was located, with important Kabbalah centers and the authors of fundamental Jewish works such as the “Shulchan Aruch”. The interview also explores the post-war diaspora of Greek Jews, particularly in America, where Zakos lived and worked from 1984. He describes organized Jewish life in New York, the various versions of Judaism (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform) and the deep religious education he gave his children, with his eldest son becoming a rabbi. The narrative captures the transition from traditional Jewish life in pre-war Greece to the modern diaspora and the maintenance of religious identity abroad.
A rare and valuable interview with Toula Franchet, a 100-year-old Holocaust survivor from Volos, who shares her memories of Jewish life in the city before the war. She describes family traditions, the way they celebrated Passover, Rosh Hashanah and Purim, and life in the synagogue. She recounts the dramatic moment of the evacuation of Volos, when the Germans were preparing to arrest the Jews, and how her family was warned by her resistance-minded Uncle Moses and the pro-Jewish Consul Scheffel. She describes their hiding in Sklithro for two years and their return to Volos after liberation. The interview is rounded off with recollections of her cousin Zacos Franchet about religious life, the Jewish shops on Ermou and the yeshiva that operated in the city. This is a unique testimony about the Jewish community of Volos, which numbered about 700 people before the war.
Transcription
Interviewer: Good morning, thank you very much for receiving us today which is Saturday, December 28th and it's about 11:30 in the morning.
Interviewer: Thank you very much because we have here my beloved aunt who has completed 100 years and will tell us whatever she remembers from her childhood and youth.
Interviewer: Well, next to me I have my cousin, Zak Frances and further over is my sister Emmy Filosofou.
Interviewer: Auntie, tell me a little your name, your mother's name and your father's name.
Toula Frances: My name is Toula Frances and my mother is Kone and my father.
Interviewer: What was mother's name?
Toula Frances: Louiza.
Interviewer: Louiza and father's?
Toula Frances: Leon.
Interviewer: That's right, that. I remember when you told me when I was little.
Toula Frances: They were a very beloved couple.
Interviewer: Were you born in Volos?
Toula Frances: I was born in Volos.
Interviewer: What date?
Toula Frances: 1924.
Interviewer: Great, so you have a lot to tell us about what was happening before the war and a little after.
Interviewer: Let's say, when you were little, how were celebrations at home, what language did mother and father speak?
Toula Frances: Greek.
Interviewer: Greek, great.
Interviewer: The holidays, how did we celebrate them?
Toula Frances: Properly.
Interviewer: I'm sure, but do you want to describe them to us a little before the war?
Toula Frances: She did everything, every holiday there was, she made everything properly.
Interviewer: Did we have any special custom, let's say Passover, what did you do specially before the war?
Toula Frances: Then, I wish it was like that now too.
Interviewer: Well tell us then so we can hear.
Toula Frances: Then we had good relatives.
Toula Frances: We had Avdela, the brother from my grandmother and we went for Passover and we all made a table together from here to there.
Interviewer: What foods did you eat?
Toula Frances: Artichokes, potatoes, made dishes.
Interviewer: But did your mother make mazzikas, mazzikas, pastelli and such things?
Toula Frances: Of course.
Toula Frances: All those things.
Interviewer: And what else.
Interviewer: Do you remember something characteristic that your mother used to do but now it's been abolished that we don't do it anymore?
Interviewer: Do you remember something?
Interviewer: As a child that we don't do anymore now.
Interviewer: Let's say I remember the tramouzes we made in Larissa.
Interviewer: What do you remember?
Toula Frances: We did everything.
Toula Frances: And whatever we could do here.
Interviewer: You always did.
Interviewer: I remember that you did.
Interviewer: Great then.
Interviewer: Tell us how life was before the war.
Toula Frances: Very good.
Interviewer: Did you go to school?
Toula Frances: I don't know. It was very good. The relatives gathered together.
Toula Frances: And Rosh Hashanah, Passover.
Toula Frances: We had good relatives. They've died now.
Interviewer: Auntie, the bat mitzvahs and bar mitzvahs you went to.
Interviewer: Did you go to bar mitzvahs before the war, children always did them.
Interviewer: Did the ceremony change at all afterwards?
Toula Frances: Of course it changed.
Interviewer: In what way?
Toula Frances: Now we don't see them doing it.
Interviewer: Come on, they do. They're just more worldly now.
Interviewer: They also have parties afterwards.
Toula Frances: No they have parties. They do more ostentatious things.
Interviewer: Were they simpler then or not?
Toula Frances: No. On the contrary, they were proper.
Interviewer: Meaning? That is?
Interviewer: Tell us how the proper way was?
Toula Frances: Listen. How it was.
Toula Frances: Whatever was done that was the custom.
Toula Frances: We did it extra.
Toula Frances: We did it right.
Interviewer: Great.
Toula Frances: And people were happy too.
Interviewer: Auntie, how many Jews were there before the war here, do you remember?
Interviewer: There were many families.
Toula Frances: Yes of course.
Interviewer: How were you saved, auntie?
Toula Frances: We.
Interviewer: Yes.
Toula Frances: My father came at noon from the shop.
Interviewer: What kind of shop did he have?
Toula Frances: Commercial down on Ermou.
Interviewer: And what did he tell mother?
Toula Frances: Get up, prepare packages and let's get up to leave.
Toula Frances: Because the Germans are waiting for us to take us.
Interviewer: Who had warned him?
Interviewer: Who had told him and he knew?
Toula Frances: He came. They had a person who.
Interviewer: Someone known?
Toula Frances: Yes.
Toula Frances: Uncle Moses was.
Interviewer: In Athens.
Interviewer: Tell us.
Toula Frances: Uncle Moses was in the resistance.
Toula Frances: Yes. And he brought a signal about this thing.
Toula Frances: That's why they prepared to leave.
Toula Frances: At the same time Sefel also gave the same.
Toula Frances: Sefel was the German consul here in Volos.
Toula Frances: Who was pro-Jewish.
Toula Frances: Himself.
Toula Frances: And he gave the.
Toula Frances: The signal to the municipality and to the police.
Toula Frances: And it became organized afterwards.
Toula Frances: The organized escape.
Toula Frances: Volos didn't have many cities like that.
Toula Frances: It had I would say 30%.
Toula Frances: It had now.
Interviewer: Of course.
Interviewer: He said why didn't they follow the instruction.
Toula Frances: Not everyone could leave.
Toula Frances: Those who stayed were caught.
Interviewer: But let's say now.
Toula Frances: They took the chief rabbi to Keramidi.
Toula Frances: Then and.
Toula Frances: We went.
Toula Frances: What good people they were.
Toula Frances: Who helped us.
Interviewer: Where in Keramidi did you go? Where did you go?
Toula Frances: No.
Toula Frances: First we went.
Toula Frances: Here, how should I say, I forgot.
Toula Frances: Anyway.
Toula Frances: We reached Sklithro.
Toula Frances: We went to the canals first and slept.
Toula Frances: There that night and then on foot.
Interviewer: Sklithro is very far.
Toula Frances: But the people were so good.
Interviewer: They helped you.
Toula Frances: They helped us.
Toula Frances: As if we had moved them.
Interviewer: How long did you hide?
Toula Frances: How long?
Toula Frances: Until liberation happened.
Interviewer: How long was it, a year?
Toula Frances: Two years.
Interviewer: And then you came down.
Toula Frances: We came down and went to our house.
Interviewer: Did you find it?
Toula Frances: We found it. There was a small family.
Toula Frances: And they left the next morning.
Toula Frances: We had our things inside.
Toula Frances: Everything. Whatever we took then, we took.
Toula Frances: And we had our things.
Toula Frances: We slept.
Toula Frances: We got up.
Toula Frances: I remember my mother taking beans to the oven.
Toula Frances: Outside to the oven.
Toula Frances: Then we took food outside.
Toula Frances: Very nice.
Toula Frances: They helped us.
Toula Frances: What can I tell you.
Toula Frances: Very much.
Interviewer: And after it ended and you came down to the house, tell us, did you meet your husband, Morris Frances?
Toula Frances: No.
Interviewer: No. What happened. Tell us.
Interviewer: Tell us.
Toula Frances: I have years.
Toula Frances: One evening he came from Athens, Zakis my cousin.
Interviewer: Yes, Zakis.
Toula Frances: And...
Toula Frances: He had his little daughter to give her a bath in Volos. It was summer.
Toula Frances: And...
Toula Frances: And then...
Toula Frances: They left. They went to Larissa.
Toula Frances: He came with father.
Toula Frances: With the son-in-law.
Toula Frances: Zakar came with father.
Interviewer: Yes.
Interviewer: And they had nowhere to stay, you had told me.
Toula Frances: Morris came in the evening, my husband.
Toula Frances: I didn't know him of course, he was a child.
Toula Frances: And together with my cousin, Zakis.
Toula Frances: And he says to my mother, auntie.
Toula Frances: It was summer, August.
Toula Frances: Can we stay here?
Toula Frances: I also have my wife's cousin.
Toula Frances: He was a cousin.
Toula Frances: And my mother says gladly.
Toula Frances: We slept, we got up in the morning.
Toula Frances: Auntie, I'll take Toula to Larissa too.
Toula Frances: Me.
Toula Frances: Because the little girl Rita had gotten used to me.
Toula Frances: When she was little then.
Interviewer: Auntie, I wanted to ask you.
Interviewer: When you were a young girl, still a little girl, did you go to school?
Interviewer: Did you go to public school or Jewish school?
Toula Frances: No, it didn't exist then.
Interviewer: But you went to public school.
Toula Frances: Yes.
Interviewer: Did your classmates, your female classmates treat you well?
Toula Frances: Very well.
Interviewer: Were you satisfied? There wasn't anything in Volos then that was against the Jews.
Interviewer: And you specifically.
Toula Frances: Very nice.
Interviewer: Synagogue, how often did you go, father and mother, you?
Toula Frances: We went every Saturday.
Toula Frances: And Friday evening.
Interviewer: There was no Jewish school. Then there were no Jewish schools like they have now.
Interviewer: There was only yeshiva for those who became Rabbis.
Interviewer: But in Volos there was nothing.
Toula Frances: Of course, there was.
Interviewer: Of course, yeshiva.
Toula Frances: From Rabbi Pesach was the Rabbi and head of yeshiva.
Toula Frances: He had quite a few students.
Interviewer: Of course, he had.
Interviewer: From where?
Toula Frances: From here, from Volos.
Interviewer: Volos. Yes.
Interviewer: Do you know about how many?
Toula Frances: According to the photograph I saw, there must have been 25.
Interviewer: There were quite a few.
Toula Frances: Yes, of course.
Interviewer: Do you perhaps know how this was funded?
Toula Frances: Ah, I don't know.
Toula Frances: I know those were difficult times then.
Toula Frances: And people looked to make a profession and earn their bread.
Toula Frances: And...
Toula Frances: They didn't have this luxury for many things.
Toula Frances: And those who went, went, finished, but then came, of course, the Holocaust and the yeshiva was dissolved.
Toula Frances: But they didn't have the Jewish schools they have today.
Toula Frances: They only had yeshiva and bet midrash.
Toula Frances: My father studied at bet midrash in Larissa.
Toula Frances: That's why he knew...
Interviewer: Call out, Zak.
Interviewer: Keep it after the good.
Zak Frances: My uncle, Morris Frances and his father, Zak and his wife, served as religious functionary in Volos for many many years.
Interviewer: 65 years.
Interviewer: Tell us now you too, Zak, since you're here and lived your childhood years in Volos, how do you remember your parents, how often...
Zak Frances: They didn't speak Ladino between themselves, but father knew.
Interviewer: Father knew.
Zak Frances: He knew how to read Hebrew.
Interviewer: He knew how to read Hebrew.
Zak Frances: Of course.
Interviewer: But not Ladino though.
Zak Frances: No.
Interviewer: No. In Volos that's how things were. So your father spoke Ladino. Tell us how he did it.
Zak Frances: He tried to teach me Ladino, I was looking for how to go play.
Interviewer: Like all of us.
Zak Frances: Yes. And we remained without.
Interviewer: In some words we all understand. The classic ones that most of us know.
Interviewer: As a small child how did you experience Judaism in Volos? Tell us, do you remember something special from the holiday tables?
Interviewer: Purim, auntie, when you had Purim did you distribute platykos?
Toula Frances: Yes of course.
Interviewer: And what did you get, money?
Toula Frances: And sesame and boureki with almonds and kaltsounakia with almonds.
Interviewer: What didn't you eat at home in terms of food?
Interviewer: What didn't you eat. What didn't you eat. Did you eat pork?
Toula Frances: Whatever wasn't Kosher we didn't eat.
Interviewer: That's right.
Interviewer: Simply.
Interviewer: In all the houses. And even today you take them.
Toula Frances: My mother was very religious, my mother.
Toula Frances: So we observed everything extra.
Interviewer: How did she wash the meat with coarse salt?
Interviewer: That is, she made the meat kosher herself.
Interviewer: Because then didn't someone slaughter for you?
Toula Frances: Yes of course the Chacham slaughtered.
Interviewer: He slaughtered.
Toula Frances: There was always Kosher here.
Interviewer: Which Chacham slaughtered?
Toula Frances: Until Vital.
Interviewer: He slaughtered.
Toula Frances: Of course he slaughtered and also did circumcision.
Interviewer: Both.
Interviewer: Bravo.
Toula Frances: Then each one.
Interviewer: Okay then things changed.
Interviewer: Whoever wanted to keep kept. Whoever didn't want to didn't keep.
Interviewer: That was it.
Interviewer: And they went to see if they keep or don't keep.
Interviewer: Okay no no more.
Toula Frances: My mother was so religious and my father and they did everything.
Toula Frances: What reading he had to do in the evening.
Toula Frances: What was a little holiday with all those things they did.
Interviewer: From the community what do you remember when you were a small child?
Interviewer: Did you have celebrations?
Zak Frances: Yes of course.
Interviewer: Yes of course.
Interviewer: Tell us a little so we can hear what exactly happened.
Zak Frances: Then it was a big community when I was little.
Zak Frances: I remember they gave me a ball at Purim.
Zak Frances: I have a photograph.
Zak Frances: And I was so interested to know how many Jews there were then.
Zak Frances: Around 700 people it had after the Holocaust.
Zak Frances: And well of course many left.
Zak Frances: Then universities started.
Zak Frances: Children went to university.
Zak Frances: They didn't want to follow commerce like me.
Zak Frances: Those years I remember Ermou had more Jewish shops than non-Jewish ones.
Zak Frances: And then the next generation disappeared.
Zak Frances: Today there are two shops I think left.
Interviewer: Which ones?
Zak Frances: Sabbetai's.
Zak Frances: And Avdela's and Mais's.
Interviewer: And Mais's, right.
Zak Frances: Then though 80% of Ermou was Jewish shops.
Interviewer: Do you remember what shop your grandfather had in Volos?
Zak Frances: Yes of course.
Zak Frances: He had many items, wholesale and retail.
Interviewer: When he returned from the war did he find the shop and continue it or did he start it again from the beginning?
Zak Frances: He continued it and started it.
Zak Frances: He took the goods to Koutsina when they left.
Zak Frances: Because he was a very good friend of his.
Zak Frances: Koutsina House.
Zak Frances: It was the biggest shop in Volos.
Zak Frances: And they put everything, they went by themselves.
Zak Frances: They put all the merchandise upstairs.
Zak Frances: Because it was three-story.
Zak Frances: And so the merchandise was saved.
Zak Frances: When they returned he opened the shop again and then my uncles continued it, the children.
Interviewer: Where did grandfather go during the war, where did he go and hide?
Zak Frances: They all went to Sklithro.
Toula Frances: We went to Sklithro. Very good people.
Zak Frances: They also had a car then.
Zak Frances: But my grandfather didn't drive.
Zak Frances: He had a driver.
Zak Frances: Who took them as far as he could take them and then took the car and...
Interviewer: Whose car was it?
Zak Frances: My grandfather's.
Interviewer: Ah, so the other guy took it and left afterwards.
Zak Frances: Yes. And they never saw it again.
Interviewer: Father and mother, auntie, where were they from originally?
Toula Frances: From Volos.
Toula Frances: No. Nona, yes, from here, from Volos.
Toula Frances: He was from Preveza.
Toula Frances: Grandfather.
Interviewer: Your father was from Preveza. Where was he born?
Toula Frances: Not my father.
Interviewer: Your grandfather.
Toula Frances: My grandfather.
Toula Frances: And they came to Volos to stay.
Toula Frances: Then my mother got married.
Toula Frances: Who was from Volos.
Toula Frances: Yes.
Interviewer: So Zak's grandfather was from here. Born here.
Toula Frances: The others, my grandfather and grandmother were from Larissa.
Toula Frances: Of my husband.
Toula Frances: The parents were from Larissa.
Toula Frances: They were, they spoke Ladino.
Toula Frances: And my grandmother didn't speak Greek very well.